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July 2011

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coach purses

Learning to trust in your own abundance is required. When you begin to be within your own space of abundance, whatever you need will appear whenever you need it.

Dis-enfrachised

I now believe all coruption charges and acts of unfair Bar Grading stories, I have ever heard about the California State Bar.

Eric Chaikin

TAKING THE CA BAR IN JULY? ALREADY UNDERGONE THIS HAZING RITUAL NUMEROUS TIMES? ALREADY AN ATTORNEY, COMING FROM OUT OF STATE?

I'm the director of documentary covering people taking the Bar in July (Ontario preferred) and would love to talk w/ interested folks who've been down this road numerous times, have a particular bone to pick w/ the Bar, or have been a lawyer for some time in another jurisdiction, who would potentially be interested in participating in our project.

email me ASAP at [email protected] and let me know your story.

thanks,
Eric Chaikin
Director, "A Lawyer Walks Into A Bar..."

angela buchanan

I think you attorneys are just freeking nuts, and unless a case involves insurance money,well I just can't think of a word to express how dumb-founded Tell me why do you go to law school in the first place or and why dear heart if not for the people and for whats right - you all need therapy. Can one of you minds please tell me where, oh where do you find an attorney who is there for the people and will help you with goverment agencys I thought i lived in anerica where a person has consutional rights , when oh when did i wake up in castros cuba, hittlers germany , or stallings russia . And like Mr.Bob Dylan says "You Gotta Serve Somebody" remember this my dear attorneys in the end we all answear to someone. Anyway I guess as long as there are car crashes you guys should stay busy. Peace out and good luck to all of you and when you sleep at night and all those people who called you come back into your head and over and over you will lay there thinking I should/could of taken care of that problem or you could be laying here content in soul on your own real cloud. FOR THE PEOPLE. later

Anna

Does anyone out there know of any law school grads who failed to pass the bar but went on to success anyway? I'm looking for life success stories that started with bar exam failures...

gook

ask yourself this: if this loser passed on his 7th attempt or whatever would he be suing the Bar? Nope. GO AWAY!

Study harder.

tony lupis

I RECENTLY FOUND A WEB SITE WITH SUCCESSFUL FOLKS WHO DID NOT FINISH HIGH SCHOOL. NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNERS. FAMOUS AUTHORS, BILLIONAIRES..ITS ALL ABOUT INTELLIGENCE NOT AMOUNT OF EDUCATION OR WHERE ONE IS EDUCATED. I KNOW MANY BRILLIANT FOLKS WHO DECIDED NOT TO ATTEND COLLEGE AND WASTE SOO MUCH MONEY ON INFORMATION THAT THEY WILL NEVER REMEBER OR USE. COLLEGE IS A BUSINESS AND THEIR ARE WAYS OF OBTAINING AN EDUCATION WITHOUT IT..ASK ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

smwindham

It is quite apparent from reading the posts here that many of you ABA graduates think that your fecal excrements do not stink. Sorry guys, but I can smell your stench from here. To be quite honest, some of the best attorneys that I have met have graduated from non-ABA schools. I guess those of you with little man syndrome have to have that ABA stamped on your phallus of a degree to make you feel like something. How pitiful. No wonder so many people despise attorneys. Quit whining and recognize the ABA for what it is--worthless.
Steve M. Windham

joe wishky

NO WAY! IGNORE THE FOREGOING POST, I JUST SPOKE TO A STUDENT AT THE SCHOOL AND HE SAID THE OUTRAGE CONTINUES TO GROW AND THE pLAINTIFF JUST FILED DISCOVERY MOTIONS.

AT THE SAME TIME, A STATE LAW SUIT ON THE SAME GROUNDS CONTINUES THROUGHT THE STATE COURTS!

HANG-ON! WE'LL SEE WHAT DISCOVERY REVEALS!

John Lacc

Simple why not make it so the ABA and the Bar grades have no knowledge of the test takers background therefore no way to be bias

ali

PLAINTIFF TO WITHDRAW AFTER HOLIDAY!

according to a professor at my law school, the plaintiff has received no help with his suit and ALL state accredited law schools have begged the california bar not to allow the suit to be seen as their views, because they fear the aftermath.

this professor attempted to assist the plaintiff but was told point blank that he would be fired if he attempted to provide any assistance.

it is his understanding that the plaintiff is withdrawing immediately after labor day, because his two teenage children are moving-in with him to attend college and the expense is to great.

what a tradgedy, when it looked as if finally someone would be brought to answer for all of the corruption at the state bar, it just fizzles in our faces.

Bakerfor3

Arent't there a few states that will allow you to sit for their Bar Exam immediately after getting your JD from a Non-ABA School? Wisconsin, Washington DC, West Virginia, Michigan, North Carolina? New MExico?, Colorado? California?

What will happen to the Non ABA Schools after this lawsuit?

I attend William Howard Taft University School of Law, and it is extremely difficult study, and they have high bar passage rates also. I'm concerned of this discrimination going on in CA regarding this lawsuit. Could it really be possible that is going on?

42USC1983

Would someone please e-mail me a copy of the Answer?

Chad

Someone on here said that in Louisiana we study French Law. That is completely not true. Louisiana is is a Civil Law Jurisdiction, not Common Law like the other 49 states. Civil Law is a very popular method of codifying laws that has Roman, Iberian and Eutruscan roots. The Romans based their early laws on what they learned from Eutruscans. Then, the Romans brought the Civil Law concept with them to Gaul and the rest of the Iberian pennisula. Later, Napoleon created the Napolianic Code which was heavily based on Civil Law. Today there are many Civil Law Jurisdictions and France & Louisiana are only two of the many. Indeed, our law combines many different influences which represents an evolution of many cultures combining, reinventing and progressing together. Louisiana Civil Law, or as we call it here, The Civil Code contains not only French, but also Spanish and early Latin laws. When preparing for our bar exam, it is very helpful to know Latin, French and Spainish as well as English.

I went to law school in a common law state and I must say that the Civil Law is must better.

For a better understanding here is an article from wikipedia:

Civil or civilian law is a legal tradition which is the basis of the law in the majority of countries of the world, especially in continental Europe, but also in Quebec (Canada), Louisiana (USA), Japan, Latin America, and most former colonies of continental European countries. The Scottish legal system is usually considered to be a mixed system in that Scots law has a basis in Roman law, combining features of both uncodified Civil law dating back to the Corpus Juris Civilis and common law with medieval sources, further influenced by English law after the Union of 1707.

In the United States, civil law is formally the basis of the law of Louisiana (as circumscribed by federal law and the U.S. Constitution), although in western and southwestern parts of the U.S., laws in such diverse areas as divorce and water rights show the influence of their Iberian civil-law heritage, being based on distinctly different principles from the laws of the northeastern states colonized by settlers with English common-law roots.

[edit]
History
The civil law is based on Roman law, especially the Corpus Juris Civilis of Emperor Justinian, as later developed through the Middle Ages by mediƦval legal scholars.

Originally civil law was one common legal system in much of Europe, but with the development of nationalism in the 17th century Nordic countries and around the time of the French Revolution, it became fractured into separate national systems. This change was brought about by the development of separate national codes. The French Napoleonic Code and the German and Swiss codes were the most influential ones. Around this time civil law incorporated many ideas associated with the Enlightenment.

Because Germany was a rising power in the late 19th century when many Asian nations were introducing civil law, the German Civil Code has been the basis for the legal systems of Japan and South Korea. In China, the German Civil Code was introduced in the later years of the Qing Dynasty and formed the basis of the law of the Republic of China which remains in force in Taiwan.

Some authors consider that civil law later served as the foundation for socialist law used in Communist countries, which in this view would basically be civil law with the addition of Marxist-Leninist ideas.

[edit]
Civil vs Common law
Civil law is primarily contrasted against common law, which is the legal system developed among Anglo-Saxon peoples, especially in England.

The original difference is that, historically, common law was law developed by custom, beginning before there were any written laws and continuing to be applied by courts after there were written laws, too, whereas civil law develops out of the Roman law of Justinian's Corpus Juris Civilis proceeding from broad legal principles and the interpretation of doctrinal writings rather than the application of facts to legal fictions.

In later times, civil law became codified as droit coutumier or customary law that were local compilations of legal principles recognized as normative. Sparked by the age of enlightenment, attempts to codify private law began during the second half of the 18th century (see civil code), but civil codes with a lasting influence were promulgated only after the French Revolution, in jurisdictions such as France (with its Napoleonic Code), Austria (see ABGB), Quebec (see Civil Code of Quebec), Spain, the Netherlands and Germany (see BGB). However, codification is by no means a defining characteristic of a civil law system, as e.g. the civil law systems of Scandinavian countries remain largely uncodified, whereas common law jurisdictions have frequently codified parts of their laws, e.g. in the U.S. Uniform Commercial Code. There are also mixed systems, such as the laws of Scotland, Namibia and South Africa.

Thus, the difference between civil law and common law lies less in the mere fact of codification, but in the methodological approach to codes and statutes. In civil law countries, legislation is seen as the primary source of law. By default, courts thus base their judgments on the provisions of codes and statutes, from which solutions in particular cases are to be derived. Courts thus have to reason extensively on the basis of general principles of the code, or by drawing analogies from statutory provisions to fill lacunae. By contrast, in the common law system, cases are the primary source of law, while statutes are only seen as incursions into the common law and thus interpreted narrowly.

The underlying principle of separation of powers is seen somewhat differently in civil law and common law countries. In some common law countries, especially the United States, judges are seen as balancing the power of the other branches of government. By contrast, the original idea of separation of powers in France was to assign different roles to legislation and to judges, with the latter only applying the law (the judge as la bouche de la loi). Today, it is widely recognized that this is unworkable in practice. Case law (or, more properly, jurisprudence), plays a considerable role in virtually all civil law countries, even though the development of "judge-made law" through the rule of stare decisis is not formally recognized. As a practical matter, the dichotomy should thus not be overemphasized.

It should not be overlooked that there are considerable differences between the legal methodologies of various civil law countries. For example, it is often said that common law opinions are much longer and contain elaborate reasoning, whereas legal opinions in civil law countries are usually very short and formal in nature. This is in principle true in France, where judges cite only legislation, but not prior case law. (However, this does not mean that judges do not consider it when drafting opinions.) By contrast, court opinions in German-speaking countries can be as long as American ones, and normally discuss prior cases and academic writing extensively.

There are, however, certain sociological differences. Civil law judges are usually trained and promoted separately from attorneys, whereas common law judges are usually selected from accomplished and reputable attorneys. Also, the influence of academic writing by law professors on case law tends to be much greater in civil law countries.

[edit]
Criminal procedure
Civil and common law system also differ considerably in criminal procedure. In general, the judge in a civil law system plays a more active role in determining the facts of the case. Also, civil law systems rely much more on written argument than oral argument.

It is a common but incorrect belief that civil law systems do not offer the presumption of innocence when in fact they do.

[edit]
Subgroups
The term "civil law" as applied to a legal tradition actually originates in English-speaking countries, where it was used to lump all non-English legal traditions together and contrast them to the English common law. However, since continental European traditions are by no means uniform, scholars of comparative law and economists promoting the legal origins theory usually subdivide civil law into three distinct groups:

French civil law: in France, the Benelux countries, Spain and former colonies of those countries;
German civil law: in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Greece, Japan, South Korea and the Republic of China (Taiwan);
Scandinavian civil law: in Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Iceland.
Portugal and Italy have evolved from French to German influence, as their XIX century civil codes were close to the Napoleonic Code and their XX century civil codes are much closer to the German BGB. Legal culture and law schools have also come near to the German system. The law in these countries is often said to be of a hybrid nature.

The Dutch law or at least the Dutch civil code cannot be easily placed in one of the mentioned groups either, and it has itself influenced the modern private law of other countries. The present Russian civil code is in part a translation of the Dutch one.

[edit]
Economic implications
According to the legal origins theory promoted by some economists, civil law countries tend to emphasize social stability, while common law countries focus on the rights of an individual. In this theory, this has a considerable impact of different countries' financial development, but it is not obvious that there is a difference between American, British and Australian development on one side and Norwegian, German and Italian development on the other.

[edit]
See also
Civil code
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_%28legal_system%29"
Categories: Civil law (legal system)

bill tucker

!!!!!!!!!!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT THE CALIFORNIA BAR HAS ADMITTED IN THEIR ANSWER TO STAMEY'S LAWSUIT THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO RAISE REVENUE EVEN BY DELIBERATLY FAILING APPLICANTS!

bill tucker

CALIFORNIA LAW DOES NOT RECOGNIZE ABA APPROVAL! IT FORBIDS IT!

CALIFORNIA BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE 6060.5 AND 6060.9!

HOW MANY TIMES DOES THIS HAVE TO BE SAID?

IF YOU WANT A DIFFERENT LAW, LOBBY YOUR CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE! UNTIL THEN CALIFORNIA LAW MUST BE UPHELD!

RUMORS ON OTHER WEB SITES SEEM TO INDICATE THIS LAWSUIT HAS ALREADY EVOLVED INTO CLASS ACTION WITH A HEAVY HITTING LAW FIRM! ITS TIME TO MAKE A STAND AGAINST ABA MONOPOLY OF ACCESS TO THE COURT SYSTEM FOR POOR PEOPLE!

Dorothy Becker

If you want to practice law in California, you should spend the money and go to a California law school accredited by the ABA. Or go to an ABA school out of state. But don't go to some YMCA law school or online joke and then cry when you flunk the bar exam over and over and over.

bill tucker

THE ISSUE IS THAT THE CALIFORNIA STATE BAR IS INTENTIONALLY FAILING PEOPLE BASED SOLELY ON THE DESIRE TO RAISE MONEY FOR ITS AGENDA BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE THEY FAIL ARE STUDENTS FROM NON-ABA CALIFORNIA STATE ACCREDITED LAW SCHOOLS!

PRACTICING LAW IS A GUARANTEED RIGHT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! NO ONE CAN PROHIBIT YOU FROM ADDRESSING YOUR GRIEVANCES IN COURT!

REPRESENTING OTHER PEOPLE IS A BUSINESS NOT A PRIVILEGE! HENCE, B&P CODES 6060.5 AND 6060.9!

REST ASSURED, IF YOU ATTENDED AN OUT-OF-STATE ABA SCHOOL, WITHOUT A CLUE ABOUT THE CALIFORNIA LAWS OF COMMUNITY PROPERTY, WILLS AND TRUST, OR FAMILY LAWS, EVEN YOU WILL PASS HERE!

THAT IS THE ISSUE!

Ability to practice a privilege not a right

The ability to practice law is a privilege, not a right. I am a practicing attorney in one of the sane states who is taking the CA bar for career advancement. It seems ludicrous that you people are even debating this issue! The privilege to practice law is a privilege people, not a right!!! What is wrong with our society, suing for $45 million because you are too stupid to pass the bar after 7 attempts!!! How many of you idiots would let a surgeon who didn't attend an AMA approved medical school operate on you?

bill tucker

CALIFORNIA LAW HAS CODIFIED STATE ACCREDITED LAW SCHOOLS!

I REFER YOU TO BUSINESS & PROFESSIONS CODE 6060.5 AND 6060.9

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IMPORTANT POINT! PLEASE DON'T SUPERIMPOSE OTHER STATES' LAWS ON CALIFORNIA! AS I READ DANNY STAMEY'S COMPLAINT ALL HE IS ASKING IS FOR THE STATE BAR TO FOLLOW CALIFORNIA LAW! THAT IS NOT WHINNING!

California has the largest and most diverse population. This State allows Attorneys from all over the world to come here. We have to have a different set of laws than most other States. Our needs are different than say, Montana, or Wisconsin, where there is NO BAR EXAM! Or Louisiana where they study French law.

Some of the posts below show a complete lack of understanding of California and California law and how California regulates law schools. Here, we have California State Accredited law schools, and non-State accredited law schools. ALL LAW SCHOOLS, EVEN ABA LAW SCHOOLS ARE STATE ACCREDITED! The California state accredited law schools DO NOT TAKE THE BABY BAR BECAUSE THEY ARE ACCREDITED! Only unaccredited law schools such as correspondence schools need take the Baby Bar. And even some of them are excellent schools.

As for lack of respect, Orange County, the most prosperous county in California has nearly half the Judges, and over half the Attorneys from State Accredited NON-ABA law schools. They get along just fine.

RESPECTFULLY, I WOULD ASK, Please don't attempt to change the issue. Many of us are thankful for this suit. My HUMBLE suggestion for those who don't like this system is to look for a State you understand and comply with their laws. Here, we would like our State to follow OUR LAWS!

El Regginator EB

People who go to non-ABA schools know what they are getting into:

- Baby Bar
- Low Bar Pass Rates
- Lack of Respect in the Legal Community
- Inability to sit for Exams outside of CA

Complaining about the results of a poor choice now is like moving under the flight path of an international airport because it's cheap, and then filing a lawsuit to close the airport.

You people are a bunch of whiners and losers...and Danny Stamey's complaint looks like an abortion gone bad, right out of the BarBri school of complaint writing, complete with bold and underlining, headings, and the phrase "pee in the urinals."

I am surprised Danny Stamey doesn't pee in the sink.

EB

bill tucker

MR. MODERATOR, PLEASE REMOVE THE POST IMMEDIATELY BELOW. THE OBVIOUS AND BLATANT RACIAL SLUR IN THIS PERSON'S NAME SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED!

As the July bar is just around the corner, I wonder if our exams are anymore safe now than they were in February? Whoever Danny Stamey is or whatever the motivation, I am sick of the amateur hour attempts to disinfranchise his rights to seek redress in the Courts.

Whatever the results in court are, there are currently approximately 500,000 registered voters in California who have been lured in huge debt by attending law schools accredited by the State Bar, then the very accrediting agency that says the schools are legitimate refuses to pass those people who attended the schools. That is wrong. If you can't see this, please move on to romper room or some other simple minded web site.

The post below is a perfect example.

Craig Kreger

This is interesting. I've wondered about this "ABA-approved" thing for awhile now from another angle:

Did ya ever notice how much more expensive aba schools are compared to non-aba schools?

Am I paying for the brand name of an aba accredited school, the overhead or both? Either way, it seems like a sham to me.

I haven't really been too happy about my dealings w/ LSAC or the way they seem to have things locked-up either. But I guess that's another issue.

Good luck w/ the lawsuit and FIGHT THE POWER!

helen b.

The issue here is not whether the complaint is poorly written, or improperly phrased, the question is does it have merit. It does. I read it through three times. In fact, I am suprised this suit hasn't come up before.

To be honest, I didn't ask my law school if there was a bias in favor of ABA schools. I didn't think I had to. I didn't seek the statistical information, if I had, I would have only seen the general release, you know, 70% fail.

The truth is right in front of our eyes. ABA graduates pass 60% of the time, non-ABA graduates pass 25% of the time. Repeaters from ABA schools pass 50% and nonABA 17%, sometimes 8 or 9%. The Bar hides the discrimination within the mountain of statistics they publish after every exam. But, there it is. There is no question about it. In fact, it is the clearest example of bias I have ever witnessed. I didn't see it.

I praise Danny Stamey. He saw the wrong and is trying to do something about it. Have you done anything about it? Has anyone? I stand with him and if I had money or time(maybe after the exam)I would also fight. I WILL be in the Court room.

All it takes for evil to win out is for good people to do nothing. I don't know Danny Stamey, but the truth is, he is trying to do SOMETHING!

Justice Scalia

A little something for the poor souls studying for the California Bar Exam:


Now I lay me down to sleep;
books are sliding in their heap.
Full of knowledge, laws, and rules;
for this profession, laden with fools.

I dream of objections, procedures, and writs;
I do think I have lost my wits.
Perpetuities, hearsay, and judicata;
memorize and know them, I just gotta.

Two more weeks until the end;
into the Committee my exams I send.
Oh, the grueling time to come;
the rewards are plentiful, but only for some.

For you see, this is California;
the odds are not stacked in way good for ya.
My message to all who cross this tale;
blow your raspberries, but never say "fail."

If you see a person on the road;
mumbling something about some Code...
It may very well be little ol' me,
ranting on about the FRE.

Walk on by, point if you must;
but I can make wills, and a trust.
Property divided and Constitution construed,
but these are not the things which wooed.

The three long days are around the bend,
but after that - it is the end.
Life back to normal, time to sleep,
and shed the information I choose not to keep.

Amen.

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